{"id":57838,"date":"2023-09-04T09:57:41","date_gmt":"2023-09-04T07:57:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/dzogchentoday.org\/?p=57838"},"modified":"2023-09-04T13:01:14","modified_gmt":"2023-09-04T11:01:14","slug":"interview-de-philippe-cornu-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/dzogchentoday.org\/fr\/interview-de-philippe-cornu-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview de Philippe Cornu 2"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>[et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; background_image=&#8221;https:\/\/dzogchentoday.org\/wp-dzogtodaychen-content\/uploads\/2023\/09\/interview-philippe-cornu-2.jpg&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;||177px|||&#8221; collapsed=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row admin_label=&#8221;Ligne&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.21.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.19.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; header_font=&#8221;Montserrat|700|||||||&#8221; header_text_align=&#8221;center&#8221; header_text_color=&#8221;#FFFFFF&#8221; header_text_shadow_style=&#8221;preset1&#8243; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h1 style=\"text-align: center;\">Interview de Philippe Cornu &#8211; partie 2<\/h1>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; header_4_text_color=&#8221;#FFFFFF&#8221; header_4_font_size=&#8221;30px&#8221; min_height=&#8221;55.2px&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;||0px|||&#8221; header_4_text_shadow_style=&#8221;preset1&#8243; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h4 style=\"text-align: center;\"><span class=\"notion-enable-hover\" style=\"font-style: italic;\" data-token-index=\"0\"><span class=\"notion-enable-hover\" data-token-index=\"0\">Traduction, po\u00e9tique et exp\u00e9rience directe du Dzogch\u00e8n<\/span><\/span><\/h4>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; 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image=&#8221;https:\/\/dzogchentoday.org\/wp-dzogtodaychen-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/cropped-logoDzogTod-512.jpg&#8221; icon_placement=&#8221;left&#8221; image_icon_width=&#8221;33px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; _dynamic_attributes=&#8221;title,content&#8221; header_font=&#8221;|700|||||||&#8221; header_font_size=&#8221;20px&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;||-2px|||&#8221; header_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_font_size_phone=&#8221;18px&#8221; header_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; icon_font_size=&#8221;33px&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; icon_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;on|desktop&#8221; icon_color__hover=&#8221;#13204d&#8221;]@ET-DC@eyJkeW5hbWljIjp0cnVlLCJjb250ZW50IjoicG9zdF9hdXRob3JfYmlvIiwic2V0dGluZ3MiOnsiYmVmb3JlIjoiIiwiYWZ0ZXIiOiIifX0=@[\/et_pb_blurb][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; module_class=&#8221;column2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_blurb title=&#8221;@ET-DC@eyJkeW5hbWljIjp0cnVlLCJjb250ZW50IjoicG9zdF9jYXRlZ29yaWVzIiwic2V0dGluZ3MiOnsiYmVmb3JlIjoiIiwiYWZ0ZXIiOiIiLCJsaW5rX3RvX3Rlcm1fcGFnZSI6Im9uIiwic2VwYXJhdG9yIjoiIHwgIiwiY2F0ZWdvcnlfdHlwZSI6ImNhdGVnb3J5In19@&#8221; use_icon=&#8221;on&#8221; font_icon=&#8221;&#xe08c;||divi||400&#8243; icon_color=&#8221;#e2e2e2&#8243; icon_placement=&#8221;left&#8221; image_icon_width=&#8221;33px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; _dynamic_attributes=&#8221;title&#8221; header_font=&#8221;|700|||||||&#8221; header_font_size=&#8221;20px&#8221; body_text_color=&#8221;#967b5d&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;||0px|&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;||26px|||&#8221; header_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; header_font_size_phone=&#8221;18px&#8221; header_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|phone&#8221; icon_font_size=&#8221;33px&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; icon_color__hover=&#8221;#13204d&#8221; icon_color__hover_enabled=&#8221;on&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p>Interview de Philippe Cornu 2, effectu\u00e9e par les traducteurs juniors du Comit\u00e9 Dzogchen Today! Gr\u00e9goire et Paul lors d&#8217;un caf\u00e9 gourmand.<\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_blurb][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;5px||0px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.21.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; min_height=&#8221;69px&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;|auto|-55px|auto||&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px|||||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.21.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h3><span class=\"notion-enable-hover\" data-token-index=\"0\">Interview de Philippe Cornu &#8211; partie 2<br \/><\/span><\/h3>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<h4><span data-token-index=\"0\" class=\"notion-enable-hover\">Traduction, po\u00e9tique et exp\u00e9rience directe du Dzogch\u00e8n<\/span><\/h4>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_text quote_border_weight=&#8221;0px&#8221; quote_border_color=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0)&#8221; module_id=&#8221;bas-1&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; text_font=&#8221;Montserrat||||||||&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; link_font=&#8221;|100|||on|||#000000|&#8221; link_text_color=&#8221;#000000&#8243; quote_font=&#8221;Cormorant Garamond|700|||||||&#8221; quote_text_color=&#8221;#bf9e77&#8243; quote_line_height=&#8221;1.3em&#8221; header_font=&#8221;|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;|700|||||||&#8221; header_3_font=&#8221;Montserrat|700|||||||&#8221; header_3_text_color=&#8221;#000000&#8243; header_4_letter_spacing=&#8221;12px&#8221; header_5_font=&#8221;|300|||||||&#8221; header_5_text_color=&#8221;#bfbfbf&#8221; header_5_letter_spacing=&#8221;12px&#8221; header_6_font=&#8221;Montserrat|700|||||||&#8221; header_6_letter_spacing=&#8221;6px&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;center&#8221; quote_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; quote_font_size_phone=&#8221;&#8221; quote_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|desktop&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p><em>Les jeunes traducteurs du Comit\u00e9 de Traduction Dzogchen Today! se posaient des questions sur la traduction et le<\/em> background <em>de connaissances n\u00e9cessaires \u00e0 sa pratique. Philippe Cornu, notre traducteur senior, a bien voulu prendre le temps d\u2019y r\u00e9pondre alors que nous d\u00e9jeunions au restaurant<\/em> La Libert\u00e9<em>. Il se peut donc qu\u2019il y ait quelques bruits de fourchettes dans cette transcription, auquel cas nous nous en excusons\u2026 Le dessert \u00e9tait un caf\u00e9 gourmand, comme \u00e0 l\u2019habitude, mais ce sont les propos de Philippe qui nous ont v\u00e9ritablement r\u00e9gal\u00e9s.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Nous sommes ici dans la seconde partie de l&#8217;interview. <a href=\"https:\/\/dzogchentoday.org\/fr\/interview-philippe-cornu\/\">Vous trouverez la premi\u00e8re partie ici<\/a>.<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; min_height=&#8221;2869.9px&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;86px||0px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text quote_border_weight=&#8221;0px&#8221; quote_border_color=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0)&#8221; module_id=&#8221;back-1&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; text_font=&#8221;Montserrat||||||||&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; link_font=&#8221;|100|||on|||#000000|&#8221; link_text_color=&#8221;#000000&#8243; quote_font=&#8221;Cormorant Garamond|700|||||||&#8221; quote_text_color=&#8221;#bf9e77&#8243; quote_line_height=&#8221;1.3em&#8221; header_font=&#8221;|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;|700|||||||&#8221; header_3_font=&#8221;Montserrat|700|||||||&#8221; header_3_text_color=&#8221;#000000&#8243; header_4_letter_spacing=&#8221;12px&#8221; header_5_font=&#8221;|300|||||||&#8221; header_5_text_color=&#8221;#bfbfbf&#8221; header_5_letter_spacing=&#8221;12px&#8221; header_6_font=&#8221;Montserrat|700|||||||&#8221; header_6_letter_spacing=&#8221;6px&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;center&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;24px|||||&#8221; hover_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243; quote_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; quote_font_size_phone=&#8221;&#8221; quote_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|desktop&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; sticky_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243;]<\/p>\n<p>GR\u00c9GOIRE<\/p>\n<p>Il y a des influences culturelles multiples au sein de toute tradition, donc y compris celle du Dzogch\u00e8n, ce qui influence bien s\u00fbr certains choix de traduction&#8230; Tu nous as d\u00e9j\u00e0 donn\u00e9 des exemples de ces liens qui se sont faits dans le pass\u00e9, notamment entre Dzogch\u00e8n, traditions autochtones et \u201cb\u00f6n\u201d au Tibet, ou Shiva\u00efsme et autres traditions du Cachemire, sans parler de la \u201cPerse\u201d, etc. L\u2019adaptation des influences culturelles vernaculaires a d\u00fb jouer sur les traductions et la mise par \u00e9crit de textes Dzogch\u00e8n en tib\u00e9tain. Pour nos traductions aujourd\u2019hui en fran\u00e7ais et en anglais, il y aura donc peut-\u00eatre parfois d\u2019autres influences perceptibles venant de la culture occidentale moderne, des exemples contemporains li\u00e9s \u00e0 nos mani\u00e8res de vivre\u2026<\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>C\u2019est une possibilit\u00e9, mais en choisissant bien, car le vocabulaire actuel est assez d\u00e9structur\u00e9 et, souvent, m\u00eame les mots ont perdu une partie de leur sens originel. Quand on prend par exemple le mot \u00ab\u00a0enthousiasme\u00a0\u00bb\u2026<\/p>\n<p>GR\u00c9GOIRE<\/p>\n<p>\u2026 <em>en theos<\/em>\u2026<\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>\u2026 c\u2019est \u201cprendre en Dieu\u201d\u2026 ou \u201c\u00eatre en Dieu\u201d\u2026<\/p>\n<p>PAUL<\/p>\n<p>\u2026 c\u2019est l\u2019auto-cons\u00e9cration\u2026<\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>\u2026 c\u2019est tr\u00e8s fort, exactement\u2026<\/p>\n<p>DAMIEN <em>(qui \u00e9tait l\u00e0 aussi)<\/em><\/p>\n<p>\u2026tandis que nous, l\u2019enthousiasme, on voit \u00e7a comme une sorte d\u2019excitation un peu superficielle. Il y aussi \u00ab\u00a0con-sid\u00e9ration\u00a0\u00bb, \u00ab\u00a0avec-les-\u00e9toiles\u00a0\u00bb\u2026<\/p>\n<p>GR\u00c9GOIRE<\/p>\n<p>Ou encore le \u00ab\u00a0d\u00e9s-astre\u00a0\u00bb\u2026 Avoir perdu le lien avec les astres\u2026<\/p>\n<p>PAUL<\/p>\n<p>C\u2019est pour \u00e7a qu\u2019il faut prendre le \u201cd\u00e9sastre en consid\u00e9ration\u201d, si je comprends bien.<\/p>\n<p><em>(rires)<\/em><\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>Oui, il y a plein de mots auxquels il faudrait redonner un sens plus profond.<\/p>\n<p>GR\u00c9GOIRE<\/p>\n<p>Mais on ne peut pas non plus faire un travail uniquement \u00e9tymologique, dans le sens o\u00f9 \u00e7a ne nous permettrait pas de rendre ce que tu \u00e9voquais l\u2019autre fois <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/dzogchentoday.org\/fr\/interview-philippe-cornu\/\">(Interview)<\/a> ;<\/strong> c\u2019est-\u00e0-dire un sens plus direct et imm\u00e9diat, dans la r\u00e9ception en langue fran\u00e7aise d\u2019aujourd\u2019hui.<\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>Non, mais il y a aussi un r\u00f4le de r\u00e9\u00e9ducation po\u00e9tique <a href=\"#back-down\"><strong>[1]<\/strong><\/a>, je dirais, de puissance d\u2019expression.\u00a0Parce que la po\u00e9tique c\u2019est la <em>po\u00ef\u00e8se<\/em>, c\u2019est le fait de cr\u00e9er par le Verbe.<\/p>\n<p>PAUL<\/p>\n<p>Paul Val\u00e9ry parlait de po\u00ef\u00e9tique, m\u00eame.<\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>C\u2019est \u00e7a, donc c\u2019est hyper important de comprendre l\u2019impact du langage, du Verbe.<\/p>\n<p>GR\u00c9GOIRE<\/p>\n<p>Il faudrait donc, pour bien traduire, \u00eatre un grand pratiquant, un \u00e9rudit et un po\u00e8te \u2014 les trois en m\u00eame temps !<\/p>\n<p>PAUL<\/p>\n<p>Comme Longch\u00e8npa <a href=\"#back-down\"><strong>[2]<\/strong><\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>Pour Longch\u00e8npa, effectivement, l\u2019aspect po\u00e9tique est capital. \u00c0 un moment donn\u00e9, tu te laisses porter par le texte. Si tu veux vraiment avoir une traduction qui rend r\u00e9ellement l\u2019esprit de Longch\u00e8npa, l\u2019aspect po\u00e9tique est incontournable.<\/p>\n<p>GR\u00c9GOIRE<\/p>\n<p>A ce propos, qu\u2019est-ce que tu souhaiterais donc transmettre de ton exp\u00e9rience de traducteur ?<\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>Ce que je souhaiterais transmettre, c\u2019est que j\u2019ai \u00e9t\u00e9 compl\u00e8tement saisi par l\u2019\u0153uvre de Longch\u00e8npa, c\u2019\u00e9tait mes premi\u00e8res grandes traductions. Et \u00e7a m\u2019a tellement saisi que \u00e7a m\u2019a habit\u00e9, et c\u2019est \u00e7a qui m\u2019a permis de le traduire : parce que si je regarde maintenant ce que j\u2019ai fait sur les trois textes de <a href=\"https:\/\/www.seuil.com\/ouvrage\/la-liberte-naturelle-de-l-esprit-longchenpa\/9782020207041\"><em>La Libert\u00e9 naturelle de l\u2019esprit<\/em><\/a>, je me rends compte que je ne sais pas si je serais encore capable de le faire, l\u00e0 maintenant. Mais \u00e0 l\u2019\u00e9poque, \u00e7a s\u2019est fait. C\u2019est un peu au-del\u00e0 de ma volont\u00e9 personnelle. Et c\u2019est \u00e7a en fait : il faut vraiment \u00eatre habit\u00e9 par le texte pour pouvoir le traduire correctement.<\/p>\n<p>PAUL<\/p>\n<p>Une fois, alors que l\u2019on traduisait, tu disais : \u00ab\u00a0ah oui, juste le rappel des mots peut rappeler l\u2019\u00e9tat, l\u2019exp\u00e9rience.\u00a0\u00bb<\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>C\u2019est surtout pour les termes qui sont des termes de pratique. Il y a des termes un peu th\u00e9oriques dans le Dzogch\u00e8n, qui forment le cadre structurel, mais il y a tous les termes qui d\u00e9signent des \u00e9tats d\u2019esprit, qui sont alors tr\u00e8s difficiles \u00e0 rendre, parce que ce sont des termes d\u2019exp\u00e9rience. La difficult\u00e9 serais alors de savoir si le lecteur, \u00e0 la lecture de ce qu\u2019on a traduit sur un de ces termes, va simplement le saisir mentalement ou va avoir le sentiment qu\u2019il s\u2019agit vraiment d\u2019une exp\u00e9rience ; que le terme va l\u2019inspirer et l\u2019inciter \u00e0 pratiquer, et que l\u00e0 il va comprendre ce que \u00e7a signifie. Il y a toujours un passage entre la nature textuelle du texte et sa nature pratique. Il faut donc inciter le lecteur, et c\u2019est pour \u00e7a que la traduction est capitale. Si la traduction est \u201cchiante\u201d\u2026(<em>rires<\/em>)\u2026c\u2019est s\u00fbr qu\u2019on rate le but. Ou si on la rend trop intellectuelle ou trop philosophique, \u00e7a peut \u00eatre aussi un d\u00e9faut. Il ne faut jamais oublier que le Dzogch\u00e8n est toujours li\u00e9 \u00e0 l\u2019exp\u00e9rience directe, celle des yogis.<\/p>\n<p>GR\u00c9GOIRE<\/p>\n<p>Tu parlais \u00e9galement de l\u2019importance de la transmission \u2014 de la transmission <em>orale<\/em> du texte, ce qui est en soit tout un sujet, sur lequel on reviendra certainement un jour\u2026 \u2014, et plus particuli\u00e8rement du fait que cette transmission soit effectu\u00e9e par un ma\u00eetre qui te sugg\u00e8re donc de traduire certains textes plut\u00f4t que d\u2019autres; textes qu\u2019il peut enseigner et commenter, sur lesquels tu peux poser des questions, demander des clarifications&#8230;<\/p>\n<p>PAUL<\/p>\n<p>Par exemple, tu m\u2019avais dit dans <a href=\"https:\/\/studentblog.ryi.org\/2021\/03\/01\/interview-of-philippe-cornu-dharma-translator-writer-and-teacher\/\">une autre interview<\/a> que tu avais eu le courage de faire la traduction du <em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.babelio.com\/livres\/Cornu-Le-Miroir-du-coeur\/833302\">Miroir du C\u0153ur de Vajrasattva<\/a><\/em> gr\u00e2ce \u00e0 <a href=\"https:\/\/fr.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Namkhai_Norbu_Rinpoch%C3%A9\">Ch\u00f6gyal Namkhai Norbu<\/a>. Sa mani\u00e8re d\u2019enseigner le Dzogch\u00e8n ouvertement t\u2019a en quelque sorte lib\u00e9r\u00e9. Pareil avec la <em>Lign\u00e9e orale du Shang Shoung (tib. zhang zhung snyan rgyud, \u201cShang shoung ny\u00e8n gyu\u201d)<\/em>, qui est le plus vieux cycle dzogch\u00e8n b\u00f6npo, que tu as traduit pour les enseignements de <a href=\"https:\/\/fr.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Lop%C3%B6n_Tenzin_Namdak\">Lop\u00f6n T\u00e8nzin Namdak<\/a>. Ce ma\u00eetre t\u2019a aid\u00e9 en clarifiant de nombreux passages, car ce texte a un vocabulaire parfois archa\u00efque et donc oubli\u00e9. Le dialogue clarificateur avec un ma\u00eetre est donc capital.<\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;3px||4px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_image src=&#8221;https:\/\/dzogchentoday.org\/wp-dzogtodaychen-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/DSCF7823.jpg&#8221; alt=&#8221;dzogchentoday.a primordial place<br \/>\n\u00a9Mar\u00e9va Bernard&#8221; title_text=&#8221;dzogchentoday-philippe-cornu&#8221; align=&#8221;center&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;center&#8221; height=&#8221;388px&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;20px|||||&#8221; box_shadow_style=&#8221;preset2&#8243; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_image][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;||0px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_text quote_border_weight=&#8221;0px&#8221; quote_border_color=&#8221;rgba(0,0,0,0)&#8221; module_id=&#8221;back-top&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; text_font=&#8221;Montserrat||||||||&#8221; link_font=&#8221;|100|||on|||#000000|&#8221; link_text_color=&#8221;#000000&#8243; quote_font=&#8221;Cormorant Garamond|700|||||||&#8221; quote_text_color=&#8221;#bf9e77&#8243; quote_line_height=&#8221;1.3em&#8221; header_font=&#8221;|700|||||||&#8221; header_2_font=&#8221;|700|||||||&#8221; header_3_font=&#8221;|700|||||||&#8221; header_3_text_color=&#8221;#000000&#8243; header_4_letter_spacing=&#8221;12px&#8221; header_5_font=&#8221;|300|||||||&#8221; header_5_text_color=&#8221;#bfbfbf&#8221; header_5_letter_spacing=&#8221;12px&#8221; header_6_font=&#8221;Montserrat|700|||||||&#8221; header_6_letter_spacing=&#8221;6px&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;center&#8221; hover_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243; quote_font_size_tablet=&#8221;&#8221; quote_font_size_phone=&#8221;&#8221; quote_font_size_last_edited=&#8221;on|desktop&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; text_font_size=&#8221;18px&#8221; sticky_enabled=&#8221;0&#8243;]<\/p>\n<p>GR\u00c9GOIRE<\/p>\n<p>Donc le fait qu\u2019un ma\u00eetre t\u2019encourage \u00e0 traduire certains textes, que tu demandes des pr\u00e9cisions, etc., est-ce bien ce que tu as fait au d\u00e9but \u2014 ou est-ce plut\u00f4t toi-m\u00eame qui a choisi personnellement lesquels tu souhaitais commencer \u00e0 traduire ?<\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>Je suis tomb\u00e9 sur les traductions de Guenther <a href=\"#back-down\"><strong>[3]<\/strong><\/a>. Elles m\u2019ont laiss\u00e9 un go\u00fbt d\u2019inachev\u00e9 car peut-\u00eatre un peu trop intellectuelles et ph\u00e9nom\u00e9nologiques, au sens (trop) complexe du terme. Et je me suis dit : \u00ab\u00a0je vais voir le texte original\u00a0\u00bb. Et l\u00e0, quand j\u2019ai vu le texte, c\u2019\u00e9tait tellement plus limpide ! Selon moi, il est important d\u2019\u00e9viter d\u2019\u00eatre trop intellectuel lorsqu\u2019on essaie de traduire pour le Dzogch\u00e8n.<\/p>\n<p>GR\u00c9GOIRE<\/p>\n<p>Ce serait peut-\u00eatre l\u2019un des biais de l\u2019approche que l\u2019on trouverait plut\u00f4t chez les Fran\u00e7ais et les Allemands ?<\/p>\n<p>PAUL<\/p>\n<p>En fait, que je sache, \u00e0 l\u2019heure actuelle, il n\u2019y a pas ou tr\u00e8s peu de traduction dzogch\u00e8n allemande : les principales publications sont traduites depuis l\u2018anglais. Nous appelons donc de nos v\u0153ux l\u2019apparition de traducteurs dzogchen tib\u00e9tain-allemand. Il faut qu\u2019une g\u00e9n\u00e9ration se forme, et qu\u2019ils aient l\u2019audace de traduire directement du tib\u00e9tain dans leur langue natale. L\u2019allemand est la grande langue de la tradition philosophique occidentale (Kant, Hegel, Heidegger) et de la mystique rh\u00e9nane, elle a de grandes ressources \u00e9tymologiques qui lui permettraient de jouer avec les racines des mots pour traduire des exp\u00e9riences profondes (on songe aux variations entre <em><strong>Grunt, abgrunt<\/strong><\/em> et <em><strong>Ungrund<\/strong><\/em> chez Ma\u00eetre Eckhart et Jakob B\u00f6hme). Il y a donc un immense potentiel en jach\u00e8re pour traduire toutes les diff\u00e9rences lexicales du dzogch\u00e8n : <em>ye gzhi<\/em>, <em>kun gzhi<\/em>, etc.<\/p>\n<p>GR\u00c9GOIRE<\/p>\n<p>Et du c\u00f4t\u00e9 anglophone, beaucoup plus de choses sont traduites directement depuis le tib\u00e9tain, bien \u00e9videmment. L\u2019h\u00e9g\u00e9monie se retrouve aussi au niveau des langues \u2014 donc les publications acad\u00e9miques qui vont avec, les fonds pour la recherche et les travaux de traduction, etc. Mais peut-\u00eatre y a-t-il parfois chez nombre de traductrices et traducteurs anglophones un autre biais que celui mental-intellectuel des Europ\u00e9ens du vieux continent ? C\u2019est ce que parfois tu nous as d\u00e9j\u00e0 partag\u00e9 je crois\u2026<\/p>\n<p>PHILIPPE<\/p>\n<p>Chez les Am\u00e9ricains, l\u2019approche est plut\u00f4t celle du <em>feeling<\/em>, qui est la particularit\u00e9 de l\u2019anglais, et qui est plut\u00f4t \u00e0 l\u2019oppos\u00e9 de ce que je d\u00e9crivais avant. C\u2019est aussi glos\u00e9 : la glose, c\u2019est-\u00e0-dire le commentaire, est carr\u00e9ment incluse dans la traduction <a href=\"#back-down\"><strong>[4]<\/strong><\/a>. Il y a souvent une dimension psychologique aussi. Ce sont donc tous nos filtres culturels, \u00e0 nous traducteurs, chacun dans nos cultures respectives. Nous en avons toutes et tous, et il faut leur pr\u00eater attention. Par ailleurs, le dialogue entre des traducteurs de diff\u00e9rentes langues, avec des contextes culturels diff\u00e9rents est enrichissant. Il nous montre que nos points de r\u00e9f\u00e9rence influencent la fa\u00e7on dont on va concevoir le texte et aussi la mani\u00e8re dont il va \u00eatre re\u00e7u par le public. Est-ce que le texte dzogch\u00e8n n\u2019est qu\u2019un livre, qu\u2019on lit une fois et qu\u2019on range dans une biblioth\u00e8que ? Ou est-ce que ce sont des textes vers lesquels on revient sans cesse pour s\u2019impr\u00e9gner du sens primordial ?<\/p>\n<p><em>Fin de la seconde partie de l\u2019interview.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.21.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.21.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_divider color=&#8221;#FFD62F&#8221; divider_weight=&#8221;3px&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.21.0&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;||0px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_divider][et_pb_text module_id=&#8221;back-down&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.22.1&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;1px||3px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<p>[1] Ceux qui lisent les textes en font parfois leurs livres de chevet, les lisent et les relisent, les r\u00e9citent ou les chantent, parfois les apprennent par c\u0153ur : il y a donc une certaine responsabilit\u00e9 \u00e0 ce que le sens soit correct, mais aussi \u00e0 ce que ce soit beau et bien dit. <a href=\"#back-1\"><strong>RETOUR<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n<p>[2] Longch\u00e8npa, XIV\u00e8me si\u00e8cle, \u00e9rudit kadampa et ma\u00eetre dzogch\u00e8n qui unit les pratiques bouddhistes et dzogch\u00e8n dans un cadre philosophique coh\u00e9rent gr\u00e2ce \u00e0 ses \u00e9crits, les <em><strong>Sept Tr\u00e9sors<\/strong><\/em> (tib. mdzod bdun, \u201cdz\u00f6 dun\u201d), notamment. <a href=\"#back-1\"><strong>RETOUR<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n<p>[3] Herbert V. Guenther (1917-2006) fut l\u2019un des premiers traducteurs de textes Vajrayana et Dzogchen en langue anglaise, notamment des \u00e9crits de Longchenpa comme le <em>ngal gso skor sgum ;<\/em> traduit en anglais par \u201c<em>Kindly Bent to Ease Us<\/em>\u201d. Professeur de philosophie, expert en de nombreuses langues, il fait usage dans ses livres \u2014 outre d\u2019un vocabulaire parfois inspir\u00e9 de la psychologie \u2014 de concepts venant des courants ph\u00e9nom\u00e9nologiques de la philosophie europ\u00e9enne (Husserl, Heidegger, Merleau-Ponty, etc.) afin de traduire en anglais les textes du Bouddhisme tib\u00e9tain et du Dzogch\u00e8n. Ses traductions ne sont plus trop utilis\u00e9es aujourd\u2019hui, mais son travail pionnier a inspir\u00e9 toute une g\u00e9n\u00e9ration d\u2019\u00e9rudits occidentaux dans le domaine du Dzogch\u00e8n.<\/p>\n<p>[4] Une traduction dite \u201ccommentariale\u201d ne fait pas que traduire les mots, elle explique l\u2019exp\u00e9rience sous-jacente dans un but p\u00e9dagogique. Cependant, cette d\u00e9marche ajoute beaucoup plus de termes et de verbes (donc d\u2019actions) que ce que le texte-source contient : le texte traduit dans la langue-cible ressemble donc plus \u00e0 un commentaire qu\u2019\u00e0 un \u201cmiroir\u201d de l\u2019original.<\/p>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.6&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;right&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;0px||2px|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row column_structure=&#8221;1_2,1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.6&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;right&#8221; custom_margin=&#8221;|auto|-111px|auto||&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;2px|||||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.6&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/et_pb_column][et_pb_column type=&#8221;1_2&#8243; 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_module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h2 style=\"text-align: center;\">PLUS D&#8217;ARTICLES<\/h2>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; custom_padding=&#8221;1px|||||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][dsm_blog_carousel include_categories=&#8221;2,30,31&#8243; use_readmore=&#8221;on&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.17.4&#8243; _module_preset=&#8221;default&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][\/dsm_blog_carousel][\/et_pb_column][\/et_pb_row][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section fb_built=&#8221;1&#8243; admin_label=&#8221;Opt-In 2&#8243; module_class=&#8221;sfly_optin sfly_optin_2&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.19.1&#8243; use_background_color_gradient=&#8221;on&#8221; background_color_gradient_stops=&#8221;rgba(255,255,255,0.9) 0%|rgba(255,255,255,0.9) 100%&#8221; background_color_gradient_overlays_image=&#8221;on&#8221; background_color_gradient_start=&#8221;rgba(255,255,255,0.9)&#8221; background_color_gradient_end=&#8221;rgba(255,255,255,0.9)&#8221; background_image=&#8221;https:\/\/dzogchentoday.org\/wp-dzogtodaychen-content\/uploads\/2022\/09\/dzogchentoday-main3.gif&#8221; animation_style=&#8221;fade&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_row _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;][et_pb_column type=&#8221;4_4&#8243; _builder_version=&#8221;4.16&#8243; custom_padding=&#8221;|||&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221; custom_padding__hover=&#8221;|||&#8221;][et_pb_text _builder_version=&#8221;4.18.0&#8243; text_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_font=&#8221;||||||||&#8221; header_3_font=&#8221;|700|||||||&#8221; text_orientation=&#8221;center&#8221; max_width=&#8221;500px&#8221; module_alignment=&#8221;center&#8221; animation_style=&#8221;fade&#8221; animation_delay=&#8221;500ms&#8221; locked=&#8221;off&#8221; global_colors_info=&#8221;{}&#8221;]<\/p>\n<h3>Abonnez-vous \u00e0 notre Newsletter<\/h3>\n<h5>Abonnez-vous pour recevoir les derni\u00e8res nouvelles, changements et les tout derniers articles de Dzogchen Today!<\/h5>\n<p>[\/et_pb_text][et_pb_signup mailchimp_list=&#8221;Dzogchen Today!|35bda9bdc6&#8243; layout=&#8221;top_bottom&#8221; success_message=&#8221;Merci pour votre inscription !&#8221; button_text=&#8221;J&#8217;en suis !&#8221; _builder_version=&#8221;4.19.0&#8243; form_field_background_color=&#8221;rgba(255,255,255,0.7)&#8221; form_field_focus_background_color=&#8221;#ffffff&#8221; form_field_focus_text_color=&#8221;#3e3e3e&#8221; use_background_color=&#8221;off&#8221; custom_button=&#8221;on&#8221; button_text_size=&#8221;20px&#8221; 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